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Post by Walms on Sept 28, 2011 8:20:42 GMT -5
True enough Donnie, my method is tough on the clutch... Lucky for me though, I don't need to power shift to keep Roland at bay... ;D ;D ;D
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Post by tripletriplenut on Sept 28, 2011 8:36:42 GMT -5
good one (the Roland factor) lol ;D
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Post by bababa3wheeeeeeee on Sept 29, 2011 19:24:47 GMT -5
I hope to get the clutch side opened up sometime this week to have a look. Rearset linkage is free and clear and seems to be operating as it should. Donnie, I bought a used, good condition, tranny from JessBikes when I was building this motor. I used my old tranny to practice disassembly and assembly, as well as measuring clearances, several times before I shimmed the "new" one with all new shims and circlips. The new tranny included shift drum and forks. The forks didn't show any sign of overheating (like the old ones) when I installed them but I don't recall checking for straightness. Oil is nice and clean cause I changed it when I swapped the clutch pushers. I'll still take a whiff though, just for you. ;D The thing is the tranny was shifting and working flawlessly for the first 600 mi and now, quite suddenly, gone south. Definately keep you posted as things evolve. Cheers, N. notwithstanding the thread highjack since, Scott gave you a good steer, get a good gander at the output end of the shifter shaft before worrying about insides the cases dinky little spring on her could have snapped, there is an adjust cam eccentric could have busted or spun take a look around where the shift shaft enters the clutch case, and follow along to the end of it at the pins on the shift drum, unless the shift drum binds, that area is where your hangup is ;D
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Post by bababa3wheeeeeeee on Sept 29, 2011 19:25:49 GMT -5
I hope to get the clutch side opened up sometime this week to have a look. Rearset linkage is free and clear and seems to be operating as it should. Donnie, I bought a used, good condition, tranny from JessBikes when I was building this motor. I used my old tranny to practice disassembly and assembly, as well as measuring clearances, several times before I shimmed the "new" one with all new shims and circlips. The new tranny included shift drum and forks. The forks didn't show any sign of overheating (like the old ones) when I installed them but I don't recall checking for straightness. Oil is nice and clean cause I changed it when I swapped the clutch pushers. I'll still take a whiff though, just for you. ;D The thing is the tranny was shifting and working flawlessly for the first 600 mi and now, quite suddenly, gone south. Definately keep you posted as things evolve. Cheers, N. notwithstanding the thread highjack since, Scott gave you a good steer, get a good gander at the output end of the shifter shaft before worrying about insides the cases dinky little spring on her could have snapped, there is an adjust cam eccentric with spring could have busted or spun take a look around where the shift shaft enters the clutch case, and follow along to the end of it at the pins on the shift drum, unless the shift drum binds, that area is where your hangup is ;D www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ-a32NwrPk&feature=player_detailpage#t=222s
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Post by ballvo on Oct 1, 2011 16:25:23 GMT -5
Got it opened up and the clutch removed to check out the suggestions made above. Everything looks normal to me but on close inspection I noticed some wear marks on the end of the shift drum shaft, just inboard from the pins behind the plate I've numbered N thru 5. The wear is significant and located between pairs of pins all the way around the shaft - so there are 6 of these in total. Anybody seen this wear before? and know what's causing it? I don't recall seeing this when I installed the "new" tranny but I guess I could have overlooked it. I did pull out the old, original shift drum shaft from my parts pile and inspected it and, lo and behold, it had the same wear marks in the exact same locations around the shaft. The wear is not as bad though as on the shaft in use. I've looked at it from all sides and cannot see any part that makes contact with the drum at this location. There is a very small amount of fine metal particles in the oil. Don't know if this is excessive or not for a 600 mi motor. Moving forward, I unlinked the drive chain so I could freely spin the tranny and tried shifting through the gears. I'd have to say that shifting is intermittent. Sometimes it'll shift all the way up to 5th and back down to N without a hitch. More often it'll go easily up to 2nd then going to 3rd (or sometimes 4th, or 5th) the shift pedal will only turn the drum half way through the required rotation. Back down to the next lowest and try again often is successful. Multiple tries at the above and problem free shifting seemed to be getting better but something doesn't seem right. I'm thinking of bolting it all back together to give it one last try before committing to pulling the motor and splitting the cases to see what the fukc is going on. I also wondered if my rearset linkage might have been part of the problem as there is a small bit of play so I installed the stock shifter and linkage but there was no change or improvement. I'll wait till tomorrow to bolt it together in case anybody has any brainstorm that might help me solve this riddle. Fire away guys. Neil
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Post by JA-Moo on Oct 1, 2011 21:21:39 GMT -5
It looks like the drum is kicking out, how much in-n-out movement do you have?
Also, disenguage the shifter arm and spin the output shaft while moving the drum with the phillips head in the middle.
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Post by johnnyc14 on Oct 2, 2011 8:57:12 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this is possible but could the collar shown in this picture as #26 be missing and allowing the shifter shaft to move too far to the left of the engine and then the linkage would jump up over the taper on the shift drum and leave those marks? I'm not sure if that's possible but it's an idea. Something is making the linkage move inward or the shift drum move outward as JA-Moo said.
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Post by ballvo on Oct 2, 2011 15:03:41 GMT -5
It looks like the drum is kicking out, how much in-n-out movement do you have? Also, disenguage the shifter arm and spin the output shaft while moving the drum with the phillips head in the middle. Thanks John (x2) for the replies. I checked and there is virtually no lateral movement of the shift drum, with or without the shifter arm in place (.005-.006") so those wear marks remain a mystery to me. Surely someone has seen them before - anyone?? This is what I found with having a helper rotate the output shaft while I disengaged the shifter arm and rotated the shift drum with the philips screw: 1. Usually, it shifts smoothly up into the next gear. 2. Occasionally, the shift drum only goes halfway up to the next gear but if rotational pressure is maintained it completes the shift as the output shaft rotates a bit more. This seems 'normal'. 3. Intermittently, the shift hangs at that halfway point and won't complete the shift no matter how much the output shaft is rotated. Turning the shift drum back to the previous lower gear followed by attempts (often several) to shift up is usually successful. This occurs mainly with 3rd thru 5th. Seems a bit odd as 4th and 5th use the same shift fork - the one on the input or drive shaft while 3rd gear engages on the output shaft using the same fork that's used for 2nd. Never a problem with 1st - it's engaged/disengaged with its own fork. As I stated earlier the hanging halfway into the next gear up feels like bumping into a stop. Likely the front faces of the gear dogs are colliding rather than engaging as they should?? Both input and output shafts are obviously turning once I'm rolling so what could cause the dogs not to engage?? I guess I gotta open 'er up to get to the bottom of this. I'm open to any and all suggestions. Cheers, Neil
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Post by rocket on Oct 2, 2011 16:55:05 GMT -5
The shifter forks could be in the wrong position Neil . I know I mixed mine up and forgot where they went . I was going threw the shifting and it would not work correctly .I fingered it out though before I bolted the cases together . I had the wrong fork in the wrong spot . Good Luck
Mike
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Post by ballvo on Oct 2, 2011 20:37:20 GMT -5
Thanks, Mike. I'm pretty sure I got them in right on reassembly. I tested the shifting multiple times with rotating the drum both before and after buttoning up the cases - and it was shifting like a dream under load until just recently. But I guess I'll find that out for sure when I open it up.
N.
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Post by zambia on Oct 2, 2011 21:00:10 GMT -5
I'm wondering if one of the shift fork locking bolts backed out or sheared off?
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Post by JA-Moo on Oct 3, 2011 0:51:52 GMT -5
If you aren't spinning the shaft fast enough, yes the dog faces will hit each other, and the drum won't complete it's rotation. The only other thing, is maybe you didn't get the roller bearing collar the correct way and there is a lot of slop on a shaft mayby?
Did you happen to watch my tranny installation video?
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2011 9:27:00 GMT -5
Have you ever rolled it backwards, clutch pulled, in gear running? This is a no-no, on H series anyway. Best way to damage a shift drum is using this method. Those marks are strange Balvo..... you must figure that one out too.
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Post by rocket on Oct 28, 2011 8:30:31 GMT -5
Have you ever rolled it backwards, clutch pulled, in gear running? This is a no-no, on H series anyway. Best way to damage a shift drum is using this method. Those marks are strange Balvo..... you must figure that one out too. That is a good point Donnie . The bike manual also tells you to not sit idling in gear , waiting at a light for example . I am always in neutral when stopped and that goes for my brain sometimes too ,,,
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Post by Walms on Oct 28, 2011 11:58:51 GMT -5
Funny, not sure why I remember stupid things like this but when on the Huron tour, I realised Givr and I (probably the rest of you guys too) had the exact same riding style when in stop and go traffic... When coasting just before stop, shift into neutral. It just tweaked me funny cause we were doing it in stereo for about 20 minutes. ;D
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