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Post by Curtis on Aug 11, 2012 15:06:43 GMT -5
Rubber mount it :-)
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Post by lc on Aug 11, 2012 18:18:02 GMT -5
"Black to body =0 , Brush to body = 0"
The black wire/brush are shorted to the case some how.
Resistance of black wire to case MUST be at least 6 ohms! The only proper path for electricity is through the field windings and then to ground via the green brush and then the internal ground the green wire shares.
J
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Post by H2 Dude on Aug 11, 2012 18:51:19 GMT -5
"Black to body =0 , Brush to body = 0" The black wire/brush are shorted to the case some how. Resistance of black wire to case MUST be at least 6 ohms! The only proper path for electricity is through the field windings and then to ground via the green brush and then the internal ground the green wire shares. J lmao you must love this thread ;D I think I now see what is wrong and not having another Gen to check I maybe out in left field. Using my analog set X10 I get 10 ohms resistance from green to body . my digital was throwing me off . And still black to body is 0. Grab flashlight and now it becomes clear . The black brush holder is closest to the pickup end of gen and is metal which means it is grounded to body. The Green brush holder is towards drive end and connects to the other brush holder BUT wait there is a fiber plate separating the 2 . Which means the Green brush is insulated. I'm wondering if someone has switched brush wires at sometime many years ago? So to confirm this idea LC , I have a reg with cut wires , If I take the reg Green out and connect to Black going to connector, the Black out from reg to green going to connector this should confirm my theory of switched wires. Well just tried this ( above ) and the same. As soon as I ground the body ZIP!!
There is NO other way the black wire can be grounded as it bolts to the case and the Green brush holder has the insulation strip between them.. gotta say Scott Thank You sooo Much here . With no numbers to work with etc this is all new to me. BUT your knowledge on early H1's has held a ton here. EditI went out and looked a a spare H1B stator. The black wire is ground and the green is insulated. this uses the same Voltage reg as the A7. Hmmm . There is obviously a short somewhere but where .
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Post by lc on Aug 12, 2012 0:31:46 GMT -5
According to the A7 wiring diagram I posted earlier the black is the field control wire. This wire should be connected to the insulated portion of the brush holder. The green is the ground and should be connected to the uninsulated portion of the brush block, that intern is electrically grounded by its mount. So yes, someone has switched the wires if the wiring diagram is correct.
The above is opposite to the H1, that uses the green wire to power the field and the black wire to ground. The h1 brush holder has the same sort of phenolic separation/isolation of the brushes.
Have you checked for a shorted rotor? There should be infinite resistance between either slip ring and the shaft. Have another look at the brush holder to confirm the insulated brush side is indeed isolated from ground.
J
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Post by H2 Dude on Aug 12, 2012 16:11:55 GMT -5
I check the slip rings to shaft and NO short. I switched the wires and reassembled. On bench it works but once put into the engine case NOTHING..No voltage anywhere. The volts go from 12v to 0. Going to have another look and see if the white is shorting out.
Edit
White wire is grounded which means the black also must be grounded. Both white and black are connected at the regulator end .
Hmmm ..I think I'm better off buying one that works..
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Post by lc on Aug 12, 2012 22:23:30 GMT -5
Perhaps the wiring diagram is mucked up and the green is the controlling wire? This would be the same as the H1. Maybe connect the green wire to the isolated brush and connect the black to the grounded brush (as it was in the first place).
The only other thing I can think of is one or more diodes is shorted and dumps all output to the case?
Edit, With the recent pic posted of an un-touched A series alternator the green DOES connect to the isolated brush. This IS the controlling wire. Secondly I suggest you replace your brushes as their lead wires appear to be frayed/destroyed.
I think I gave you brushes for the H1B 2 years at Paris ago. They might be the size you need.
J
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Post by H2 Dude on Aug 13, 2012 10:34:56 GMT -5
Going to do a few last test if no go then it goes in the spare bits. I suspect an internal short eg Diode or elsewhere EDIT I put 12v to the green brush and tap neg to shaft and SPARK . Remove rotor and test with power to inner slip ring ( Green Brush) and Neg to outer slip ring and viola an instant magnet. I then take the neg to the shaft and nothing..then connect to drive end shaft..nothing . re test with meter and no continuity from slip rings to shaft I check the diodes to see if any were grounded, nothing.. When rotor is assembled and power supplied . It cannot produce power until the rotor spins ..correct? Then why is it shorting.. Unless there is some voltage produced while rotor is energized..which may mean a diode is shorting once powered. If I knew which one I'd buy another diode assembly ( all 3 available , not thru kawi ) But I can't test until the rotor is in place..
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Post by H2 Dude on Aug 14, 2012 9:17:34 GMT -5
The more I do the more I get confused. So I know when the rotor is in Gen body it shorts to body with power or NO power. I remove and test again..Neg to shaft and Pos to slip rings..No ground. I put rotor onto casing and ground casing with Neg. Put Pos again to slip rings..No short.. Put rotor back in gen and I now have a short BUT where and why?? I cannot see anything touching the slip ring. With the 2 slip rings being internally connected and the black brush going to ground it only makes sense that is the short . None of this makes any sense to me.. faaack
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Post by lc on Aug 14, 2012 11:20:35 GMT -5
From the terrible condition I saw of the brush block/ frayed brush leads and excessive/cold/ blobby solder this would be my suspicion of your shorting issue. Remove the brush block and examine for a short across the brushes on the brush block. There may be some debris (strands of brush leads?) laying across the phenolic divider between the brush holders causing the issue. This may also only happen when the brush is compressed into its brush holder upon installation into the unit.
Maybe assemble the unit with the brush block omitted, access the slip rings within the case and confirm there is still no continuity of rotor to ground?
With everything properly assembled there WILL be some continuity between the rotor and the ground/case. Black to ground (case) should be 0 ohms (appear as short) Green to ground should be around 5-6 ohms (power has to go through rotor windings to get to ground).
Any chance the green wire is pinched/chafed to somewhere within the case when assembled?
With the exception of the built in rectifier (diode pack) this unit is a simple as your H1B. There is no mystery parts. The output of the unit is controlled by how much voltage is supplied to the rotor (which intern dictates the strength of the magnetism of the rotor). We have now determined controlling power is actually supplied by the green wire.
All we have to do now is insure the power is getting to the rotor via the green wire and its brush and not be shorted to ground before it gets there.
The return electrical path of the rotor is by the brush that is directly connected to ground. This brush also has a black wire connected to it, which will act as a ground for the regulator.
J
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Post by H2 Dude on Aug 14, 2012 18:41:11 GMT -5
Thanks LC . My next step was to yank everything out maybe in a few days. I will not let this beat me..lol I'll let you know in a few days what I find or don't ..lol
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