Smokey RH cyl

[givr]

Great tips guys, I have to get my replacement 25mm iggy side seal yet, (got one of the bad ones).

Can't seem to find threebond 1104 anywhere, same with yamabond 4 or suzuki bond 4 (same stuff apparently). I read in one forum that someone has used permatex ultragrey as a good substitute. Can anyone comment on this? It says it's good from -65°F to 500°F

[zambia]

I've got a tube of three bond, I can bring it over when I drop off my top end (which should be later this week - maybe Wednesday?)

ian

[givr]

That would be fantastic! I'll PM you my details.

[Lou]

permatex ultragrey as a good substitute

you have to read these very carefully...some don't do well with gas, some are OK.

I only use the yam stuff now. ;D

[givr]

Well, I got it this far. I was thinking the seal would show some sign of damage or wear, looks pretty normal. I guess when the engine's running things are different. It's pretty late now, I figure I'll continue on tomorrow when I'm fresh. I'll try LC's extraction method then.

[Lou]

You swaped the carbs first right?

[givr]

Yeah, no difference, hardly any oil came out when drained. Supposed to be something like 1.4 qt in there. At least that what I put in, maybe half that came out. Also, when I loosened the clutch cover, very little oil seeped out of the bottom As the bike wasn't in running condition when I got it, I'm guessing this leaky seal was the reason it was parked.

[givr]

Just called Kawasaki, they have the 22mm O ring in stock 92055-018 that goes between the primary gear and the seal. ;D

[givr]

Thanks to the tips from LC, I got the seal off. Yea!

Here's some more detail I got regarding this, I also asked if the sleeve/Oring needs to be removed as well:

The end seals actually have a metal core under the rubber so you will not be able to simply cut it out. On the LH seal i replaced I used two screws 180 degrees apart. The screws I used were I believe a #10 sheet metal screw about 1/2 inch long. They have an extremely sharp point on them (not drill point). I hit them with a hammer lightly to just penetratre the seals metal insert and then threaded them in about a 1/4 inch. Be carefull not to screw them in further than the thickness of the seal as you do not want them touching the balls or the cage of the bearing. I actually used a claw type nail extractor but a claw hammer should do too. The seal will pull out easier than you would think it would.

Is your O ring visible at the end of the spacer? The outer end by the gear is where the parts manual illustrates it and the Glenns manual shows installing it here too. I ask because there was some discussion that it belongs at the inside end of the spacer on the KTW board. The only way it would fit on the inbd end would be if the internal chamfer of the spacer was big enough to accomdate the o ring AND fully seat against the bearing too. I have always seen the ring on the outer end and it tends to deform somewhat over the keyway slot.

The only reason to remove the sleeve would be for access to deglaze the point of contact where the seal lip rides on it. If this is left shiney (as from the last seal) your new seal could leak there. A scotch brite (pot scrubber) pad works nice to remove the glaze.

Hopefully these tips work well for you.

I found that the inside of the seal ONLY had the tranny oil in there. There's no trace of the bluish 2 stroke oil that I would expect. I'm thinking I'm opening a pandora's box here. I'm also starting to suspect a bad check valve on the oil line. I have another one that I could use. Time to scour the KTW on check valve testing. BTW, does the sleeve which the seal contacts look normal here? Or does it need some work? LC's note says to scotch brite it if it's shiny, and it is indeed shiny. Guess I answered my own question. The old seal looked mint too, pity.

[lc]

Don't forget to make a tight fitting cardboard shield to keep any swarf out of the bearing (while chamfering the case bore edge and using scotch brite on the sleeve, should you choose to leave it installed). Ball bearings are VERY sensitive to pitting by dirt/grit which later leads to failure fwiw.

There should be an oil gallery hole beside the bearing. Be sure it is clear and keep the sealant away from it when installing the new seal. Use a light layer of grease (or two stroke oil) on the lip of the seal and the sleeve when you install the seal and O ring too.

J

[givr]

I think the problem was with the sleeve, the seal has 2 contact surfaces, one is tighter because of the circumferential spring that keeps tension on the sleeve, and there's a slight groove that I can feel with my fingernail. I had another scrap crank that I dismantled for the sleeve, unfortunately, that one has pits I can't remove in the seal lip contact path. The sleeve looks symmetrical so I'm considering just reversing it so the clean surface runs under the seal lip that has the spring. I think I should take the sleeve off the other crank I got from Lou, just to see how that one is.
BTW, the oil hole in the upper case seems to be mostly obscured by the seal, looking at the one that came out, I can see a witness mark on the seal itself where about 90% of the hole was covered by the seal. Could I have a misdrilled oil passage here? Same witness mark on the seal from my scrap crank. This hole is on the top side of the case, slightly forward and goes to the transfer portion of the cylinder. I thought this bearing would get oil directly from the oil line passage but it doesn't seem to. I haven't looked at the bottom case half, maybe I'm missing something here....

[givr]

I'm going to check the oil passage placement on my other set of cases to see how far from the bearing face it is. It doesn't seem right that the hole would be mostly covered.

[givr]

FWIW, the oil passage on my H1D case is about 2mm closer to the seal edge than the H1F case I have, which increases the amount that the seal blocks the hole when in place. I added a little relief in there so the hole isn't so obstructed. 70's quality/process control at it's best. Or perhaps the H1F featured a much needed engineering change