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Post by lc on Apr 18, 2014 13:53:08 GMT -5
Yes. The big banjo bolt with the 14mm hex head.....
J
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Post by kawonda750 on Apr 18, 2014 14:39:54 GMT -5
I don't have another one but I took it out , used carb cleaner and blew it out. used the little wire welder tip cleaner. Still no go.
I would think that if it was plugged at the engine side that the line would fill up then pressurize and maybe blow. This is pumping through but not filling up. my guess would be the line is no good . I can't see it leaking, a really obvious leak anyway. I will try to find another line. Would an H1 line work? Different part number but the shape and length look similar.
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Post by lc on Apr 18, 2014 16:18:11 GMT -5
The H1 and H2 use the identical springs and balls in the check valves. Both use the optimal 4.6 psi cracking pressure. I'm guessing the main difference between each model's lines may be a physical routing/length.
Crabby Steve and Darth over at KTOG have developed new lines that all three lines use the small OD tubing (as opposed the std kaw practice of differing diameters). Darth would be a good person to contact to confirm the use of an H1 line on an H2, if it will indeed fit without over stressing the line to make it fit.
J
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Post by kawonda750 on Apr 18, 2014 18:18:52 GMT -5
K Thanks.
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Post by kawonda750 on Apr 19, 2014 16:03:06 GMT -5
I have a spare set of oil tubes for the H1 re-done by Tom V. Can I unscrew the whole engine end banjo and put it on the H2 line? Then I would know that I have a good check valve. Is there any difference in the banjos between H1 and 2?
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Post by mraxl on Apr 19, 2014 17:10:13 GMT -5
I have a spare set of oil tubes for the H1 re-done by Tom V. Can I unscrew the whole engine end banjo and put it on the H2 line? Then I would know that I have a good check valve. Is there any difference in the banjos between H1 and 2? They are the same (unless very early H1), however, the seat for the ball is in the part of the banjo that attaches to the line and that is most likely where any issue can be found. Springs fit only one way... don't get them turned around.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 6:06:31 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the oil pump is variable displacement in that the piston stroke changes with demand through the cable actuated cam. The only time the pump is positive displacement is with the throttle fixed, thus leaving rpm as the altering factor. I checked my lines with air pressure and one was stuck open and the others cracked around 4 PSIG. All I did was clean the valve and stretch the bad spring. The spring does have a top and bottom as someone wisely mentioned already. I think the system runs at a very low pressure otherwise you'd need fine oil jets, if a line plugged up the flow would go elsewhere, at least until pistonian seizure. I doubt you'd blow a line. I believe all outlet lines from the pump are fed from a common cavity. Running a single daisy manifold means more parts to cook if the line plugs upstream which is highly unlikely. I'd think the main daisy outlet portion would need a slightly bigger ID to feed three cylinders if the system was that critical which I doubt. So long as the full oil tank static pressure won't open the check valves the system should function well enough, however high cracking pressure might reduce flow a bit if taken to an extreme. Some injector systems have a test to verify accurate output however this spec is based upon 1960-1970s oil standards and some oils manufactured today offer adequate protection at reduced ratios.Not sure if you could easily compensate correctly with pump adjustment like you could with pre-mix. As Walms has mentioned before, a big honkin carb will produce more power at lower oil pump or cable travel and so might factor into tuning offset of the oil system should an oil lean condition be suspect. This guy knows his pumps www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rh-QMXamZtE
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Post by JA-Moo on Apr 20, 2014 12:54:38 GMT -5
Actually the oil pump stroke is only restricted for the first 1/8th throttle, the rest of the throttle movement is full stroke. So the amount of oil is controlled by rpm.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 20:15:42 GMT -5
Actually it is controlled by both like any pump, positive or variable displacement, but its displacement can actually be altered at any given rpm even using a short cam throw (open and close the throttle at any rpm)it's a variable displacement pump by definition, that's all I'm saying.
rt
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Post by JA-Moo on Apr 20, 2014 23:31:03 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the oil pump is variable displacement in that the piston stroke changes with demand through the cable actuated cam. The only time the pump is positive displacement is with the throttle fixed, thus leaving rpm as the altering factor.
I was just trying to clarify for the guys that don't know a lot about how the pumps work. Some think the stroke also increases in a progression, and it doesn't.
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pk
2nd Gear
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Post by pk on Apr 21, 2014 5:52:22 GMT -5
Seems like a lot of guessing going on here. Why don't you guys just read pages 43 - 47 and 138 - 141 in the Kawasaki H series shop manual. On page 140 you will also find a diagram (fig. 451) showing the delivery characteristics of a H2B oil pump at a fixed RPM. I assume the x-axis is degrees on the oil pump lever.
PK
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Post by Walms on Apr 21, 2014 7:20:43 GMT -5
For the record, there is such a thing as a variable output positive displacement pump... We have one on our triples. (Clipped from the web) A non-positive-displacement pump produces a continuous flow. However, because it does not provide a positive internal seal against slippage, its output varies considerably as pressure varies. Centrifugal and propeller pumps are examples of non-positive-displacement pumps. If the output port of a non-positive-displacement pump were blocked off, the pressure would rise, and output would decrease to zero. Although the pumping element would continue moving, flow would stop because of slippage inside the pump. In a positive-displacement pump, slippage is negligible compared to the pump's volumetric output flow. If the output port were plugged, pressure would increase instantaneously to the point that the pump's pumping element or its case would fail (probably explode, if the drive shaft did not break first), or the pump's prime mover would stall.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 19:18:59 GMT -5
That's why gear and gear-rotor etc oil pumps come with relief valves that bypass to the pump inlet I once ripped apart a complicated variable pump to see what made it tic. It had with several pistons that ran on a swash plate. To maintain a constant pressure due to changing flows the regulator would alter the tilt angle of the plate and thus the pistons' stroke.
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Post by Darth on Apr 22, 2014 9:38:27 GMT -5
They are the same (unless very early H1), however, the seat for the ball is in the part of the banjo that attaches to the line and that is most likely where any issue can be found. Springs fit only one way... don't get them turned around. Dale (as usual) is correct. If you switch the ENTIRE valve ... your OK. If you switch ONLY the banjo section (with spring and ball) you may end up with a leaky check valve. And yes ... these pumps are positive displacement pumps (sorta) with variable output dependent on crank speed combined with throttle position. I've torn several of these apart (both 3 and 4 hole), repaired a few, and figured out the differences between some of the models ... Thats why Moo calls me ... Darth Anal ... ... and I don't deny it !
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Post by kawonda750 on Apr 26, 2014 13:49:16 GMT -5
It turns out it was the oil line. There were no visible faults but I got an NOS one and it worked right away Even without holding it wide open. I could see the oil progressing a 1/4 inch at a time. i didn't think that I would block up the oil channel at the cylinder base. I'm always careful about that....now.
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