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Post by lc on Aug 17, 2010 11:28:03 GMT -5
My plates (H1) were sand blasted last time they were out. I checked them for flatness afterwards and they were still ok. This is probably were the concern is for blasting the plates.
I have yet to ride a triple that will easily go into neutral with engine running at a dead stop. I have tried running with and without the wavy expanders and they did nothing to the stopped/neutral issue. Years ago I stomped on the shift pedal and it did actually go into neutral while stopped, but this is a good way to break the cast iron shift drum. Hence I always use a rolling neutral selection.
Clutches in these bikes seems to be just barely adequate when new for a dead stock engine. As you start tuning for better performance and the clutch wears slightly slippage often occurs. A clutch adjusted tight (as to try to avoid the drag while stopped) will often slip immediately after the shift is made. You can postpone fixing/modding the clutch by adjusting the clutch so it just barely disengages to allow shifting.
J
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Post by Walms on Aug 17, 2010 11:31:56 GMT -5
I blasted mine on the KH500, just because I thought it was a good idea. Then I read on KTW not to. That clutch never slips. Then I asked my buddy DEREK who builds race sleds, MOTO-Xr's and street bikes for Team Vincent. He said if you think your plates are the issue, replace em, never bead blast. The oil he claims is there to cool and to add surface tension. The flatter and smoother the better it will grab, just like 2 pieces of glass stuck together. Add a bit of water between the glass and you can't pull them apart. Same goes for the clutch. Are factory plates smooth or roughed up? A QUOTE Bead blasting leaves residual compressive stress in the surface. In some application this is a good thing but on thin flat items such as clutch plates it may lead to warping. I agree with Mr. Sayegh, better not to bead blast clutch plates. ANOTHER I know many people recommend this but I don't go for it. Although the finish after bead blasting would be great, the chance of warpage is also there. I have owned a bead blaster for most of my life and you would be surprised how it can warp a piece of thin metal. I avoid using it on precision small or thin parts. If you decide to do it make sure you use very low air pressure. to each his own here, Derek has never steered anyone wrong and builds a fine engine. I noticed a mod was made to a reply that removed the "blast em" part. Not saying it's wrong, just pointing out what others suggest from building hundreds of competition engines. I had no issures with warpage, I made sure of that! BTW, what is the first thing you do when replacing a clutch in a car? Reface the burnished surface.  If it makes you feel better, then just lap the steel plates. |
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Post by lc on Aug 17, 2010 11:58:50 GMT -5
Rick, here on the Board, has recommended in the past using an orbital sander to clean up the steels FWIW.
J
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Post by wheeliehappy on Aug 17, 2010 12:51:19 GMT -5
My Main concern was the fact that it would not go in to neutral when stopped (I was worried it might be a transmission problem) but after hearing everyone saying their bike is similar, then I'm not going to worry about it tell the end of next season or until its slipping badly, it seems my clutch problem is the norm or at the very least I know its not a transmission problem and the clutch is ok, at least for now. I think you guys just saved me a few bucks that I can put towards a paint job and pipes this winter.
Thanks
Karl
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Post by biker Don on Aug 17, 2010 13:36:59 GMT -5
An automotive clutch isn't liquid cooled, and the PP / flywheel
are cast iron. Couldn't be warped with a sledge hammer. Did Rick
mention blasting them? He has
a bead blast cabinet at his disposal so I wonder why his "preferred method"
isn't to blast them. but sanding. An orbital sander is what
I use on auto PP's /Fly's in cars, with emery cloth. The only thing
i found that stopped my slip wasn't BelRay, or blasting but good old 8090
staight up.
The slipping clutch is still an issue, the hard to locate
N isn't an issue, it's normal.
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Post by Walms on Aug 17, 2010 14:00:09 GMT -5
An automotive clutch isn't liquid cooled, and the PP / flywheel are cast iron. Couldn't be warped with a sledge hammer. Did Rick mention blasting them? He has a bead blast cabinet at his disposal so I wonder why his "preferred method" isn't to blast them. but sanding. An orbital sander is what I use on auto PP's /Fly's in cars, with emery cloth. The only thing i found that stopped my slip wasn't BelRay, or blasting but good old 8090 staight up. The slipping clutch is still an issue, the hard to locate N isn't an issue, it's normal. Well if warping is your only issue then you'll have no issues with bead blasting then . and Surface tension is huey. Proof is in the pudding bud, I confirmrd all my plates were dead flat on a surface plate afterwards... hell you said you even did yours, now you say you don't recommend it... Did you have problems or what? |
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Post by givr on Aug 17, 2010 14:10:41 GMT -5
I think Donnie said he blasted his plates first, then heard from his buddy after the fact not to.
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Post by Walms on Aug 17, 2010 14:20:44 GMT -5
I think Donnie said he blasted his plates first, then heard from his buddy after the fact not to. I guess that was my point.... Better to trust what you know from your own experience then just accept what someone tells you. |
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Post by biker Don on Aug 17, 2010 14:30:42 GMT -5
heard from the KTW it wasn't acceptable, after I did mine.
And I also said it didn't fukc it up, the clutch worked the
same before and after on the KH500. The B, never did a
thing to them, it slipped until I gave up on 1030, Belray
and LUCAS.
No problems at all Walms, and no I don't recommend it
at all
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Post by Walms on Aug 17, 2010 15:06:10 GMT -5
heard from the KTW it wasn't acceptable, after I did mine. And I also said it didn't fukc it up, the clutch worked the same before and after on the KH500. The B, never did a thing to them, it slipped until I gave up on 1030, Belray and LUCAS. No problems at all Walms, and no I don't recommend it at all Send me the link to KTW Donnie and I'll set them straight as well! ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by lc on Aug 17, 2010 16:40:42 GMT -5
I'm in the same boat as Donnie regarding having my plates sand blasted and then reading the same referred KTW thread.
Fortunately, the fellow who did my plates was not too aggressive with the blasting and did not warp them. I think it may be totally up to the operator of the grit blaster whether the practice is acceptable or not. I got away with it this time.
IMHO Re-finishing the plates alone is not really a cure for a slipping clutch. I refinished my plates in preparation for the installation of new fibers as well as new springs.
The cheapo way to extend the life of a slipping clutch is to remove the wavy rings and install a spacer washer under the stock springs. With the H1 the max thickness of the washer with stock springs is around 3/32 in (I used to make them up on a lathe in high school). If you go thicker coil bind will occur and you won't be able to get the clutch to disengage.
Presently I'm happy with the combo I'm running in the H1: Vesrah friction plates, Vesrah KZ 1000 springs (SK401) that are slightly longer and have a heavier gauge wire than stock, Ball bearing pusher, Sytec release, no wavy rings and a new repo cable from Andre, that is actually intended for the H2 750.
J
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Post by lc on Aug 17, 2010 16:52:35 GMT -5
Walms,
If you want to set KTW straight you will have to search for the thread though Google by a method posted by Mraxl. The thread in question dates before KTW was redone a couple of years back (when allot of good info was lost).
J
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Post by Walms on Aug 17, 2010 20:13:27 GMT -5
My tongue was planted firmly in my cheek when I made that comment LC. If there was a thread there that discussed warped plates due to blasting, I'd imagine it had more to do with the media used. BTW, it's standard practice to bead blast electro magnetic clutch plates in machine tools when they are replaced. Although the plates are made of blue spring steel and the plates are steel on steel contact. They do run in oil as well. |
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Post by biker Don on Aug 18, 2010 7:21:26 GMT -5
Andrew, it'd be like a needle in the haystack
to find the thread, plus I have been away
from the KTW for the most part, better than
2 years. Anyway I really don't know the answer
nor do I truly believe any harm would come
from blasting. Media blasting is dangerous on body
metal, but clutches.....
There is a concern by many, just passing along info.
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Post by JA-Moo on Aug 18, 2010 11:23:50 GMT -5
Someone probably blasted a set incorrectly and warped them. I personally don't like to blast anything going inside a motor, but that's just me.
Sand blasting "might" cause a problem, as it might leave a very rough surface and actually wear on the fiber plates.
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