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Post by wheeliehappy on Aug 17, 2010 9:14:26 GMT -5
Ok Guys, next problem.
I have some issues with my clutch or I think I do, I'm hoping you guys can help me to know whats going on. first, when the bike is cold shifting in to neutral while stopped it no problem, but after 10 min of riding its almost imposible to get it in to Neutral, it just keeps poping past netral (when I'm stopped) first to second, second back to first, however under the same conditions (when warm) if I'm rolling to a stop with the clutch pulled in, as long as I'm rolling, its easy to get it in to neutral.
The other thing is if the bike is cold and I'm rolling on the throtle, not nailing it hard but rolling it on nice but a bit agresive, if the bike is cold or not totally warmed up yet, like riding only a Km or so in 3rd or 4th and of course fifth, when the power band hits the engine with just rev like a bastard, not sure if it does it in 3rd maybe, maybe not. this only does it once then I guess after the clutch gets warm it works fine.
So is this a clutch problem or is this more then one problem. ?
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Post by biker Don on Aug 17, 2010 9:21:47 GMT -5
N is hard to hit sometimes. the B is 5 up so
N isn't to hard to locate. Don't try and kick
it into N but rather rock with the clutch and
try and hit it.
Sounds like the clutch is slipping. Try a different
oil.
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Post by givr on Aug 17, 2010 9:23:37 GMT -5
Sounds like when your clutch plates heat up, they expand causing the symptoms you're describing. If you are using Barnett plates, I believe the problem is more pronounced. Your description seems purely clutch related.
I use a sytech clutch actuator (shorter throw), and need to shift into neutral when rolling. I've gotten used to it, and it isn't a problem for me. I also have a roller bearing clutch pusher, so I can sit at a traffic light with the clutch pulled in with no fear of anything welding together.
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Post by wheeliehappy on Aug 17, 2010 9:26:04 GMT -5
well I'm using Belray Gear Saver 85 wt, this seems to be the recomended oil on this site, to be honest I may have put in 80 wt, it was after the fact that I noticed on Kawasaki triples rescouces that it was recommended 85 wt.
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Post by givr on Aug 17, 2010 9:28:46 GMT -5
I use the same oil, no slipping problems here. To be honest, I don't take your situation as a problem. It's "just how it is".  |
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Post by Walms on Aug 17, 2010 9:46:42 GMT -5
Good oil, so the next thing you can try before buying new fibre plates and springs is to bead blast the steel plates.
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Post by wheeliehappy on Aug 17, 2010 10:09:56 GMT -5
I'm kind of getting the idea that this is not a big problem it is what it is. I like that. ok where can I get bead blasting done, is this a service that shops would offer if I take them in?
Also, sorry I don’t know this, if I buy new friction plates from reproduction, does that include steel plates or when you buy them you only get the fiber plates?
from what I can see on reproductions website the plates are 60 is bucks and the springs 22 bucks and I’m sure I'll need a new side case gasket?, would it be worth just purchasing this and installing it. Another dumb question, if I change the friction plate and the springs, would that be considered a new clutch? :-) lol
:-) Guys really sorry, sometimes a feel like a nuisance asking some questions.
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Post by givr on Aug 17, 2010 10:21:45 GMT -5
First thing I'd do before buying anything is measure up and inspect what you have. See if the friction plates are within thickness spec, same for the steels. Check the heights of the springs. You may be able to save the clutch cover gasket. If it comes off in one piece, perfect. Use a little threebond on the cover sealing surface to hold the gasket, (none on the motor side) and you'll be able to remove the clutch cover multiple times without having to replace the gasket.
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Post by biker Don on Aug 17, 2010 10:24:00 GMT -5
blasting the plates isn't recommended, so "they" say.
try NAPA 8090 oil, it solved my issue
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Post by H2 Dude on Aug 17, 2010 10:38:30 GMT -5
Does the clutch slip only when cold?
Does it rev to redline OK ?
If slipping when cold only it's just the oil , if it slips when hot then then it maybe a clutch adjustment or new plates and new springs as well.
Andre sells just the friction plates .
As for the steel plates I would just clean up them and make sure they are flat .
My 350 slips at 7,500 and will slip when cold or I should say on a cool day .
My 350 shifts to neutral OK .
Colins sometimes was a bit hard to find neutral BUT it turned out to be a dragging clutch.
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Post by Walms on Aug 17, 2010 10:55:51 GMT -5
blasting the plates isn't recommended First time I heard that... I did it to mine and clutch works great! |
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Post by H2 Dude on Aug 17, 2010 11:02:47 GMT -5
Sandblasting might be too rough BUT bead blasting should be fine I would think.
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Post by wheeliehappy on Aug 17, 2010 11:09:42 GMT -5
It only slips when its cold but as soon as I let off and take it easy for a few min. 3 to 5 min it will grab no problem and will be fine for the rest of the ride,yes it goes to red line no problem.
this is not a big problem for me, I'm just wondering if its something that needs attention, just want the bike to run the way it was ment to run before I get in to painting and purchasing chambers.
Giver, thanks for the offer I may take you up on that. in the next few days I'm going to have a look and check the specs on the on the friction plates and springs and go from there.
this is all starting to sound like this is pretty much normal stuff that I should not be too worried about?. I think I may double check the clutch adjustment to see if its dragging nor not, worth a look. I never did adjust it according to the manual and in I.T. we have a saying RTFM and I'm sure you guys can figure out what that means.
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Post by biker Don on Aug 17, 2010 11:19:41 GMT -5
I blasted mine on the KH500, just because I thought it was a good idea.
Then I read on KTW not to. That clutch never slips.
Then I asked my buddy DEREK who builds
race sleds, MOTO-Xr's and street bikes for Team Vincent. He said if you
think your plates are the issue, replace em, never bead blast. The oil
he claims is there to cool and to add surface tension. The flatter and
smoother the better it will grab, just like 2 pieces of glass stuck together.
Add a bit of water between the glass and you can't pull them apart.
Same goes for the clutch. Are factory plates smooth or roughed up?
A QUOTE
Bead blasting leaves residual compressive stress in the surface. In some
application this is a good thing but on thin flat items such as clutch
plates it may lead to warping. I agree with Mr. Sayegh, better not to bead
blast clutch plates.
ANOTHER
I know many people recommend this but I don't go for it. Although the finish
after bead blasting would be great, the chance of warpage is also there. I
have
owned a bead blaster for most of my life and you would be surprised how it
can
warp a piece of thin metal. I avoid using it on precision small or thin
parts.
If you decide to do it make sure you use very low air pressure.
to each his own here, Derek has never steered anyone wrong and
builds a fine engine. I noticed a mod was made to a reply that removed
the "blast em" part. Not saying it's wrong, just pointing out what
others suggest from building hundreds of competition engines.
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Post by Walms on Aug 17, 2010 11:25:02 GMT -5
Sandblasting might be too rough BUT bead blasting should be fine I would think. Yes, I meant to say bead blast... If it only does it at warm up, no biggie... My 400 did the same but eventually started slipping in 5th after it was warm... There is also an outside chance it could mean you are jetted too rich and making more power cold You'll know better this fall. |
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