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Post by H2 Dude on Jun 8, 2015 11:09:17 GMT -5
On my Buds H1b it charges fine at 16 Vlts but as the motor warms the voltage slowly drops and at idle it reads 10 volts with lights on.
Stator has continuity between all 3 wires and NO to ground issues. Both the reg & rectifier test good and I compared to my H1B.
Once cooled down it charges.
The brush is good as I check before installing cover. The only thing left is the rotor .When mine failed it just quit.
After the voltage drop I check for yellow wires grounding..all good.
Can a rotor go south as the motor warms ?
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Post by III on Jun 8, 2015 12:03:24 GMT -5
What about the high speed coils going South maybe Ian?
Don't they cause a similar symptom when they get warm?
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Post by H2 Dude on Jun 8, 2015 12:05:04 GMT -5
Ok back out and tried again..approx 16 vlts and about 13 at idle..all good BUT the battery (2nd one) isn't charging.
Put fan on motor and run..all good but light are dimming but meter across the battery says charging.
Battery dying so I unplug red wire off rectifier and I get approx 15 Vlts..so I know the stator and rotor must be good..Funny thing is when I rev the motor the Vlts go up BUT the headlight remains dull.
Gotta say I am baffled.
all grounds are good.
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Post by mraxl on Jun 8, 2015 12:37:10 GMT -5
On my Buds H1b it charges fine at 16 Vlts but as the motor warms the voltage slowly drops and at idle it reads 10 volts with lights on. Stator has continuity between all 3 wires and NO to ground issues. Both the reg & rectifier test good and I compared to my H1B. Once cooled down it charges. The brush is good as I check before installing cover. The only thing left is the rotor .When mine failed it just quit. After the voltage drop I check for yellow wires grounding..all good. Can a rotor go south as the motor warms ? Quick answer is "yes". Both the stator and rotor can change as they heat up. Sometimes the windings will short out with heat and/or centrifical force. Another sore spot can be poor solder connections. It would be best to check ohms, not continuity, on the stator. It will require a digital meter as the readings will be less than an ohm. The problem with taking any ohm readings on either is that when cooled they perform well.... so taking readings after cooling, they will be normal. The best way to determine faulty component is to replace one at a time. Otherwise testing when hot will be required. There is a procedure in the Maintenance manual has a test using a 6v battery that will create a hot test. www.3cyl.com/mraxl/manuals/maint/section7.htm#early%20h1%20chargingAnd you should never see 16v if the regulator is doing it's job. A battery can also have shorted plates that can be a problem where the battery is drawing down the alternator output. |
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Post by lc on Jun 8, 2015 14:38:58 GMT -5
On my Buds H1b it charges fine at 16 Vlts but as the motor warms the voltage slowly drops and at idle it reads 10 volts with lights on. Stator has continuity between all 3 wires and NO to ground issues. Both the reg & rectifier test good and I compared to my H1B. Once cooled down it charges. The brush is good as I check before installing cover. The only thing left is the rotor .When mine failed it just quit. After the voltage drop I check for yellow wires grounding..all good. Can a rotor go south as the motor warms ? I suffered a similar situe on my h1a(same charging system) The issue was some aftermarket brushes I had installed. To verify meter the rotor through the brushes when hot. I found the value had increased allot from the normal 5 ohms cold. As things cooled the normal value would return. You can find a problem brush by metering through each brush to is appropriate slip ring. Normally the resistance here should be close to zero ohms. My fix was I reinstalled original kaw brushes. The regulator is set too high if it gets as high as 16v too...It can be adjusted by changing the tension on the leaf spring that holds the points closed. Better yet put a solid state Ford regulator in and forget about it.. kawtriple.com/mraxl/tips/regulator/regrecconversion.htmJ |
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Post by H2 Dude on Jun 9, 2015 10:26:58 GMT -5
Thanks Guys
I'll try the 6vlt trick first and if Ok move onto the stator etc.
I checked the stator when hot right after the battery died.using a Digital OHM meter yellow to ground no short.
Yellow to yellow same reading hot or cold . Same reading matched on my rider H1B.
May take a few days before I report back on this.
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Post by H2 Dude on Jun 10, 2015 11:01:29 GMT -5
I tried the 6vlt test first.
connected the wires to heat up the rotor and after 30 seconds I took a reading..5.3 ohms
next I dug up an old british ammeter 0-12 and did the test. moves to about 2 amps.
I then repeated the test on my spare and a NOS rotor..same results
So it's good.
Windings I get no ground and approx 1 ohm as same result on my H1B and the 2 spares.
rectifier
red probe to red
Red > 3 yellows Continuity
red > Blue..No reading
red > Black continuity
reverse No continuity
Black probe to black
Black > 3 yellows.continuity
Black > Blue continuity
Black to red continuity
Reverse NO reading
Sames reading on my project and My H1B
Voltage reg test the same at 5.5 approx
Stator brushes are approx 12-13mm
So I'm really baffled now.
looks like I will replace the rotor for testing then the rectifier and the regulator all seem to work even on my H1B
If I connect my meter to do a AC test off the yellow wires what voltage should I expect? I see no information anywhere.
I'm thinking at least 30 vlts on each wire
Oregon Motorcycle parts has the Rectifier and Regulator that will work.
I'm going to upgrade my rider H1B with these and keep the spare parts for testing.
Both of these do not have the wire for the Charging light which is redundant anyway on the H1B
Rectifier is Model R255a
Voltage reg ..VR3-U
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Post by kawonda750 on Jun 10, 2015 15:51:46 GMT -5
I recommend the LC conversion Ian. ford regulator and rectifier. Works great at a fraction of the cost. If you're going to change, you may as well go better.
I did it on the H1F'n B and on my H1 with great results. The only thing you need is an idiot light for the charging system which I don't think the H1B has. I played with it for hours until a local farmer who does work on Ford tractors told me about the necessity of the light for the system. I just put it to the neutral light instead but a simple extra light should be fine.
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Post by lc on Jun 10, 2015 19:21:02 GMT -5
The link I provided includes an alternate regulator wiring drawing for the non warning light H1B.
Should you want to install an optional discharge light on the H1B the wire for it is light blue. This should be an unused wire present in your harness.
BTW. Dave, Your indicator light should have a 470ohm resistor wired in parallel to it.As such if the bulb burns out the charging system continues to work just fine.
J
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Post by kawonda750 on Jun 12, 2015 6:11:35 GMT -5
I always listen to you, Scott. I have the resistor. Tucked in the headlight.
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Post by H2 Dude on Jun 12, 2015 21:14:00 GMT -5
I love electrical issues..lol..So today I replaced the rotor..and Zip..then replaced with my NOS rotor..ZIP..replace the stator with my spare..ZIP..Off comes my Rider rectifier and ZIP..I even used a jump wire from the rectifier red wire to batt terminal in case the Battery terminal was defective..ZIP..
This weekend I'll double check the voltage regs on my "B" to eliminate them.
my next test will be MY H1B rotor and if ZIP then off comes my Stator..Faaack..
All 3 stators including MY rider test the same with 1.2 Ohms resistance between Yellow wires and NO ground..Even when HOT.
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Post by mraxl on Jun 13, 2015 6:34:54 GMT -5
I love electrical issues..lol..So today I replaced the rotor..and Zip..then replaced with my NOS rotor..ZIP..replace the stator with my spare..ZIP..Off comes my Rider rectifier and ZIP..I even used a jump wire from the rectifier red wire to batt terminal in case the Battery terminal was defective..ZIP.. This weekend I'll double check the voltage regs on my "B" to eliminate them. my next test will be MY H1B rotor and if ZIP then off comes my Stator..Faaack.. All 3 stators including MY rider test the same with 1.2 Ohms resistance between Yellow wires and NO ground..Even when HOT. Be sure to check rotor brushes. If they are too short it may cause contact issues. There is a line scribed on them to indicate when to replace them. Assuming brushes are ok...... I'd bet that Scott's regulator mod will fix your problem. kawtriple.com/mraxl/tips/regulator/regrecconversion.htmOn my H1B I ran a wire from the non used main harness blue terminal to the turn signal light. (disconnected from signals) That gives you a charge indicator light just like the earlier H1's. |
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Post by triplecraze on Jun 13, 2015 9:50:27 GMT -5
I want to order new brushes for my h1f . Who is selling these replacement brushes? Thanks triplecraze
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Post by mraxl on Jun 13, 2015 10:04:23 GMT -5
I want to order new brushes for my h1f . Who is selling these replacement brushes? Thanks triplecraze Diablo Cycles has them for early H1. I know of no one who has them for late H1. I found brushes at a local small engine repair shop (vacuum cleaner, I believe) that could be modified to work. The carbon is easy to file to correct dimensions. |
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Post by triplecraze on Jun 13, 2015 11:32:24 GMT -5
Has anyone used these brushes from a vacuum shop? What is the success and performance result? Would anyone on the board know the brush dimensions?
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